


Why it made sense that Jaime and Brienne weren't endgame (Meta)

by Anonymous



Category: Game of Thrones (TV)
Genre: F/M, Meta, game of thrones meta
Language: English
Status: In-Progress
Published: 2019-05-23
Updated: 2019-06-19
Packaged: 2020-03-09 20:14:18
Rating: Teen And Up Audiences
Warnings: Creator Chose Not To Use Archive Warnings
Chapters: 6
Words: 2,655
Publisher: archiveofourown.org
Story URL: https://archiveofourown.org/works/18924253
Author URL: https://archiveofourown.org/
Summary: A meta I wrote over a year ago about Brienne and Jaime's relationship and why they would not be endgame as well as proving that they didn't love each other in a romantic sense.I've reworded it and added more to it and decided to upload here as I'm proud of the fact that I was so on the mark about this.If this meta isn't for you please be adult enough to scroll along as at this time I will not be bothering approving or responding to rude comments.





	1. Intro

**Author's Note:**

> Most of this was written prior to season 8. I've decided to post what I wrote prior to then and add in more additional proof. Posting it here as the j/c tag needs more pro stuff in it, especially with all the j/b fics that have been appearing in it lately. If you don't like, move along.

This is my meta for why it made sense that Jaime and Brienne weren't endgame and why he didn't love her. Much of this was originally posted on my tumblr back before season 8 aired. This is just the index/intro below are what the chapters will be:

First I will debunk the common reasons used pre-season 8 as proof for why Jaime loves Brienne:

Chaper 2: The Scene At Riverrun:

Chapter 3: The scene in Season 5, Episode 4 where Jaime gazes at Tarth:

Chapter 4: The scene at Joffrey’s wedding, with Bear and The Maiden Fair playing in the background:

Chapter 5: The bear pit scene and the scene where Jaime lost his hand.

Chapter 6: The scene in season 7 where Cersei watched Jaime and Brienne “exchange looks”:

Chapter 7: Additional prior to season 8 proof!

Next I will debunk other common reasons used as proof:

Chapter 8: But, the Actors/Directors Etc say they're in love

Chapter 9: But, Jaime and Brienne are based off of Beauty and The Beast:

Chapter 10: But, the books!

Chapter 11: But, GRRM Based Brienne on his current wife and Cersei on his ex-wife!

Chapter 12: Why Jaime didn’t love Brienne romantically even in season 8:

Chapter 13: Additional reasons/in closing


	2. Riverrun

**Summary for the Chapter:**

> Debunking the Riverrun scene that some people use as proof of Jaime's love for Brienne

In Riverun, Brienne tries to return Oathkeeper to Jaime and he refuses her. There is admittedly lots of emotion in this scene. As for the “It’s yours, it will always be yours.” line, this has no double meaning, he is talking about the sword.

With the "It’s yours, it will always be yours.” line he is telling her that he is unworthy of the sword. Likely because he himself would have never gone to find and protect the Stark girls. He had enough honor in him to task Brienne to do it for him, but his need to be around Cersei was too strong for him to actively help them himself.

If what he said was meant as an admission of love, then he would have made a move on Brienne here. Perhaps she would have rejected him, perhaps even slapped him. However, that’s never stopped him from making a move on Cersei before. We have no reason to believe he wouldn’t make a move on Brienne if he felt something for her. It’s simply not in Jaime’s character to let the chance of rejection stop him.

Jaime is a very passionate man. If he felt anything more then friendship, respect, and admiration for Brienne he would definitely have kissed her in this scene. His feelings for Cersei would not even factor in, just as they didn’t factor in when he helped Tyrion to escape.

Furthermore, though both are obviously sad at the thought of it, they both admit they will fight each other, possibly to the death if it comes down to it. True it didn’t come to this, Jaime was able to solve the situation peacefully by convincing Edmure to surrender. However, if Edmure had refused than we have no reason to believe Jaime would not have fought and possibly even killed Brienne if it came down to it. He even threatened to launch Edmure’s baby into a cannon if he had to! 

For those who think he didn't mean it, there is no canonical evidence to support that. In fact, at the end of episode 4 in season 8 Jaime even tells Brienne: "“I would have killed every man, woman, and child in Riverrun…for Cersei.”

**Notes for the Chapter:**

> Switched to anon, due to several childish j/b shippers coming into my other fics to troll. So no convenient link back to my profile now if you want to harass me (which I'm reporting to a03 btw) You'll have to manually find my profile now if you want to harass me.


	3. The "Tarthgasam" Scene

**Summary for the Chapter:**

> Analyzing the scene where Jaime gazes at Tarth

First off, him gazing lovingly here is debatable. I’ve seen people refer to Jaime’s look in this scene as “heart eyes”, however, look closely at that scene.

His facial expression doesn’t change that much when he asks “Is that Estermont?” to when he finds out its actually Tarth.

Yes, Jaime does gaze a moment longer upon finding out its Tarth. Personally what I believe is what might be going on here is that he is that at this point he may be thinking of Brienne and wishing her well on her journey and, perhaps concerned for her wellbeing as well. If it were something more like some deep love and longing surely his expression would have changed more upon finding out it was Tarth. 

Another option is that perhaps he is thinking of Cersei. What? You ask. Well, let me explain something that not many people might know.... 

Estermont was actually the Island where, at least in book canon, Robert, members of his court, and of course Cersei, and Jaime stayed at for two weeks, sometime in the early years of her marriage. It’s during this time even that Cersei believes Joffrey to have been conceived. Which means when Jaime first asked if it was Estermont, he was actually thinking longingly of Cersei. 

Perhaps the show is giving a nod to book readers here, because I can think of no other reason why they would choose Estermont of all Islands for him to mistake Tarth for. If the Tarth scene was added in to show Jaime's longing/love for Brienne, surely they would have chosen another island for him to mistake Tarth for. Bloodstone island, for example, is also on the way to Dorne, and only a bit further south of where Estermont is, and far as I know, Jaime and Cersei have no history together there, so if the scene was truly meant to be just about Jaime and Brienne, surely they could have chosen that island. I know some will say the distance is too great (As Jaime should know he hadn't traveled that far yet), however, he should also have known he hadn't traveled south enough to reach Estermont yet either. So I don't believe the showrunners were factoring in distance for this scene.

In closing, I believe Jaime seeing Tarth here is meant to represent him seeing Brienne, and the mention of "Estermont" is meant to represent Cersei. It's a hint/foreshadowing that Jaime will be looking at/with Brienne, but unable to stop thinking of and loving Cersei. If you think about it, it's a perfect analogy. Estermont is mentioned before Tarth, because it's meant to represent the first love of Cersei. Jaime's expression and movement changes very little because his feelings for Cersei don't change, even when he finally is with Brienne. It's perhaps the writer's way of foreshadowing that Jaime and Brienne actually will become canon, they just will not be endgame.

**Notes for the Chapter:**

> Thank you to the positive and supportive commenters. For those who have nothing polite to say, don't waste your time. I am not here to argue and as with any of my fics, I will not be approving or replying to rude comments.


	4. The scenes at Joffrey’s wedding

**Summary for the Chapter:**

> Analyzing the scene at Joffrey’s wedding, with the song Bear and The Maiden Fair playing in the background

I've seen a lot of people try to use the scenes at Joffrey's wedding, and the song playing in the background as proof that Jaime and Brienne love each other and would eventually marry.

The song used, The Bear and The Maiden Fair also reflects the relationships between Sandor Clegane and Sansa Stark, and Jorah Mormont and Daenerys Targaryen.

Source: https://awoiaf.westeros.org/index.php/The_Bear_and_the_Maiden_Fair

So why should this song playing be proof Jaime and Brienne will be endgame? It isn’t even good proof that they would go canon, The other 2 couples certainly weren’t canon ever, at least not in the shows. In the books both other pairings may happen (Jorah and Dany share a kiss in the books if I remember right), however, it's still unlikely Dany/Jorah will be endgame in the books.

As for the scene where Cersei and Brienne talk and Cersei says "But you love him" it likely is proof Brienne loves Jaime. It is, however, certainly not proof Jaime returns the feeling.

I believe that scene was paralleling Jaime’s unfounded Jealousy which occurs in this very same episode. As we have a very jealous Jaime tell Loras that if he were to marry Cersei she would murder him in his sleep and murder the child before it drew its first breath. The "You will never marry her." "Neither will you." scene with Jaime and Loras is also foreshadowing Jaime and Cersei will have a tragic end together.

It’s done for the purpose of showing us how toxic and possessive Jaime and Cersei both are of each other and to also foreshadow that they will have a tragic end together and both be the death of each other, because they cannot let each other go. And not to get too off topic, but this is true for both Jaime and Cersei. Jaime especially. For if Jaime had been able to move on from Cersei, he would have stayed in Winterfell and still be alive. Also, Jaime was slowed down fighting Euron which caused him and Cersei to get caved in. Therefore Cersei also would likely still be alive if Jaime had let her go, as Euron was on his way to the same secret entrance Jaime was heading for.

**Notes for the Chapter:**

> I might have to add an additional chapter. This song reminded me that I should have a chapter about him rescuing her and how that doesn't prove romantic love. Also, J/B fans, stop harassing me in the comments. I'm not gonna respond to rude, childish people throwing temper tantrums. If I do approve your comments it will only be when this meta is finished, and then only to show everyone else what the majority of you people are like. Rude comments are not welcome and will be reported for the harassment that they are.


	5. Jaime losing his hand/the bear pit rescuing scene

**Summary for the Chapter:**

> Analyzing the bear pit scene and the scene where Jaime lost his hand.

**Notes for the Chapter:**

> I decided to add a chapter about these 2 scenes. I didn't think about this originally when doing this meta, but I want to analyze these scenes too now.

First off, and this first point isn't exactly relevant to anything regarding Jaime's feelings or lack thereof for Brienne, but this is something that kinda annoyed me. People saying that Jaime lost his hand for Brienne. He didn't

Jaime lost his hand because he had a big mouth that he couldn't keep shut. Or rather, because he is being cocky and a show off with his "fancy words" and talking down to Locke. In the beginning of the conversation, Jaime is implying that Locke doesn't know what sapphires are. However, in spite of this, Locke is convinced enough, at least temporarily, that he decides to not rape, nor let his men rape Brienne because he believes Jaime's story that Tarth is a land rich with sapphires and he believes that Brienne's father will gladly pay, but only if she is returned with her maidenhead intact. 

After Locke tells his men to not touch her, he remarks "unbesmirched" and Jaime feels the need to further talk down to him, by confirming it means "undefiled" as if Locke couldn't tell that was what he had meant. Obviously, Locke knew what Jaime had meant even if he didn't completely understand the wording. Then after this, Jaime continues to make things worse and ignite Locke's anger more, by talking about all the studying and fancy words he learned. 

Jaime then goes on to talk about the war and tells Locke how he is a smart man and he knows the North can't win. Then, Jaime continues to talk asking to be unchained. Jaime basically says how he is not as young and resilient as he once was and that he wants to sleep on his back tonight. 

It's this kind of talk and cockiness I believe that pissed off Locke to the point he wanted to cut off Jaime's hand. I believe Locke was a simple man and likely wouldn't have bothered to cut off Jaime's hand had Jaime spoken to him in a different manner. So IMO while Jaime did defend Brienne from being raped, I do believe him losing his hand has more to do with how he spoke to Locke, rather than that he saved Brienne.

Now as for the actual rape and why Jaime would talk them out of raping her if he doesn't feel something for her?

I'm not gonna be touching on the manner of Cersei's rapes by Robert here, because I'm not sure if that's show canon or not. I'm thinking not because I remember the scene with Ned where she is sporting a bruise on her face and Ned asks "Has he done this before?" and Cersei replies "My brother would have killed him."

However, Jaime has always been anti-rape (despite the sept scene, but that's a topic for my other meta). He heard Rhaella being raped by Aerys and this he was powerless to stop. He wanted to stop it though. In the books when Jaime protested that the Kingsguard were sworn to defend the queen as well, Ser Jon Darry replied, "We are, but not from him". It's mentioned in this special season 4 episode too https://gameofthrones.fandom.com/wiki/The_Kingsguard so it's show canon as well that Jaime had knowledge of Rhaella being raped and was powerless to stop it. 

So, of course, Jaime would want to save Brienne from being raped, he still regrets and possibly is even traumatized by listening to Rhaella being raped. It only makes sense that since he couldn't save her, he would try to save another woman from being raped. I really don't think it's anything more than this, because at this point it didn't seem as if Jaime and Brienne even felt a bond of friendship between them. Both of them I believe had yet to even say a kind word to the other.

As for the scene where he rescues her from the bear, I know in the books that's when he has his fever dream and later tells Brienne "I dreamed of you," however this meta is for the show only (tho I do think the endgame for the C/J/B will be much the same in the books, the way of getting there seems to be differing greatly). Perhaps I can one day do a meta for why Jaime and Brienne won't be endgame in the books either, or rather, why GRRM isn't planning for them to be so, since at this point I doubt the last book will ever get released. I will say this though, him saying "I dreamed of you" while romantic sounding and all doesn't mean he has romantic feelings for her. He even almost insulted her rather than tell her that! It sounded just to me like the dream just reminded him of her and made him perhaps feel guilty about the prospect of not going back to rescue her.

As far as the show goes, I do believe that for one, after saving her from the rape he somewhat felt that the loss of his sword hand would be in vain if she met some ill fate and two I believe at this point they'd developed somewhat of a bond, perhaps a friendship even. Of course, you wouldn't want any friend of yours to be in harms way! That he went back for her does not mean he is romantically interested in her, it may, however, mean he does value her as a friend.


	6. Season 7 Dragonpit looks scene

**Summary for the Chapter:**

> A brief analysis of the looks Jaime and Brienne exchanged at the dragon pit

I don't think there's much to go into here. I don't even understand why so many braime shippers thought these looks meant Jaime was checking Brienne out/in love with her.

In the show, this exchange goes on for about 5 seconds before Daenerys arrives. I know that the scripts also note how Jaime and Brienne were exchanging looks and Cersei noticed, so it does have some significance, however, it doesn't indicate he loves her.

So why would Jaime and Brienne be exchanging looks like this? Well, a few possibilities:

They are friends who haven't seen each other in ages. If you had a friend who you hadn't seen in quite some time, would you not glance at them? 5 seconds is not that long of a time and after not seeing his friend so long it makes sense he would look at her. They are both concerned for the other as well and these glances may be a way to try and see how the other is doing. Perhaps Jaime is also concerned that Cersei will notice Oathkeeper. Actually, this is a good bet, as weren't their leaks out years ago saying Cersei would notice Oathkeeper? Perhaps a scene was filmed and cut.

As for Cersei noticing these looks and being upset about it? We don't get to see her reaction to it, other then that she looks angry, so we can't be sure what she's feeling about it. It could be as I said, that Cersei noticed Oathkeeper with Brienne and is upset about that. Regardless, even if she was worried that Jaime felt something romantic for Brienne it doesn't indicate that he actually did. Remember Cersei and Jaime are both very jealous people, as we saw in season 4, which I already covered in chapter 4.

**Author's Note:**

> I'm not going to approve any negative comments, so don't waste your time. There's plenty of j/b fics in the j/c tag and I'm not going in those fics bitching about them. The show proved J/C to both love each other and be endgame, so if you don't like that take your sour grapes elsewhere. Switched to both comment moderation and only allowing comments with an account to comment, since ya'll are too immature to keep your opinions to yourself. ISo now you will have to not be cowards and post with your a03 name or at least go to the effort of making a fake account. Not that I will approve your rude comments then either. Funny how you guys throw temper tantrums when a j/c positive ends up in your precious tag, yet all the time you guys tag j/c in your shitty j/b fics. Quit it with the double standards and grow up. Also, you can always filter your search to not show things tagged as cersei/jaime. But wait guess you hypocrites would miss too many j/b fics then since you hypocrites love to tag j/c in your fics.
> 
> Due to harassment by several J/B shippers coming into my other fics to troll since I posted this, I am switching this to anon. Yes, I'm aware most probably know who I am but at least now you'll have to actually go looking for my a03 profile if you wanna harass me, rather then having a convenient link here to it.


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